Content warning for mentions of sexual violence from 5:15 through 5:50.
Spoiler alert for everything beyond 11:50.
Beck Dengler
This is going to be NBN’s Bridgerton Roundtable. We're going to talk about this just crazy show that tries to do a million things at once. It was adapted based on a novel series by Julia Quinn, which is actually an eight-book series. So there could be a lot of Bridgerton in our future. The show has been very hyped – at least a lot of people are watching it. So I guess the first question to begin with is does Bridgerton deserve the hype? And what are your thoughts on the show?
Isha Sharma
I mean, I liked it. I think it kind of did deserve the hype. I feel like a lot of the drama lately have been teen dramas, and not period pieces-ish. So I feel like it's kind of new. It has its own flavor. And I think Shonda Rhimes is the producer, and I like all of her other shows. She brings in a lot of the elements that I like about the other shows into Bridgerton. So I think that the hype is deserved.
Elizabeth Yoon
Since Downton Abbey, we haven't seen as popular of a period drama, as far as I know. So it's kind of been like that next modern twist on Downton Abbey. Although I do think that the first couple episodes were a little slow, eventually, as we got more in tune and more insight into the characters, I think it did eventually live up to the hype.
Tanisha Tekriwal
The costumes are great, and I feel like a lot of people watch period pieces for the aesthetic. And I get that. I get that completely, but I don't think plot-wise it was as invigorating as Downton Abbey. In any show, you need to have someone you're really rooting for, and I just didn't see that here. I personally didn't care much for Daphne at all. She didn't really know what she wanted. She just wanted to get married. And I'm not saying that that's not cool, but beyond that, she didn't have a personality. Her personality was that she didn't like Simon from the get-go, unlike everyone else, so that makes her quirky and unique, and so she should be the protagonist. Even the other characters like Eloise, – who I think is very, very, very, very gay – as much as I love her, her only personality was, I hate everything that Daphne does, and I want to be the opposite of her. And everyone else is just kind of like, "nice."
Isha
With Eloise, her thing was very "not like the other girls," which makes a little bit of sense because she did not like what a lot of the other girls were into. She wants her to get her education or whatever. But it felt like she did not express that the right way. It felt like she was taking her anger out, that should have maybe been on society in general, on Daphne. With what you said about Daphne, my biggest issue with her is she would constantly complain that the men in her life didn't trust her to make decisions and stuff, which is great because like hashtag feminism, you know. But every time she had the opportunity to make a decision for herself she kind of messed that up.
Beck
My opinion on the show was: ehh somewhat fun to watch, but I did not like the characters. It was trying to do so many things. It was really trying to establish this whole world, a cinematic world with all the different characters having their own storylines. We go to their gambling place. They've got a boxing ring. We go to their orgy house. We’re really going all over the place with tons of these different characters. I don't even know their names. And then they’re held on by this ultimate romance with Daphne. Her motivations change slightly, but she just tries to get the Duke to impregnate her I guess. I guess that's the vibe.
Tanisha
When I was watching the show, I kept forgetting that it was called Bridgerton because I was so confused by why it was called that. I really thought it should have been called Lady Whistledown. The only people we even like know about in the Bridgerton household is Daphne and her brother. And even Eloise, all she does is like go sit outside, smoke, be gay. And I don't know if that's much about her, you know?
Isha
In the show's defense, I think they're confirmed to be renewed for seven seasons, or maybe it's not confirmed.
[Editor's note: It is not confirmed that the show is renewed for seven seasons. It was renewed for a second season, focusing on the eldest Bridgerton son, Anthony.]
Beck
Seven?
Elizabeth
Wow. Is it like one for each sibling?
Isha
Yeah, A through H. Each season revolves around one of the characters. So the next season is supposed to be about Anthony. One of the show's flaws was the fact that there were so many characters. And obviously, they're doing that to set up for future seasons and the longevity of the show. But it did come at a price where you feel like you don't really know a lot of the characters. I don't know if we can blame not liking the characters on that, because some of them just have undesirable qualities.
Elizabeth
If anything instead of focusing on so many different of the characters or so many of the different siblings, maybe you have a second sibling that's upcoming in the next season be the second focus because you don't really know the characters after this season as well as I guess the producers or writers were shooting for. At this point, I don't know which sibling, maybe outside of Eloise and her kind of development in society, which one I would be intrigued to see a whole season on. Obviously, I'm gonna watch it because I've watched the first one and I just kind of want to see how it goes. But I don't think there's specifically one I'm particularly excited for.
Beck
So if each one is gonna correspond to a different sibling, does that mean the two young kids, they're gonna get their own seasons, like the little boy?
Elizabeth
See, I don't know the little boy's name. I know there’s like a Hyacinth in there.
CW: Mentions of sexual assault (please skip to 5:50 if you wish to avoid this subject)
Tanisha
Something that made me uncomfortable was that whole scene, which was obviously a rape scene, but it isn't characterized as such. I think the showrunners somewhere have talked about that as like a moment of Daphne being empowered, which is really uncomfortable. It was obviously not consensual.
Isha
Yeah, I'm definitely not comfortable with the showrunners or whoever framing that as empowerment. That's just sexual assault. I don't know if it should be framed as something positive, like empowerment. Yeah, I don't like that at all.
Beck
What do you then think of the main romance for this season, Daphne and the Duke? Do we have many opinions? Because their relationship fell into a lot of romance clichés. The young virgin who's so naive, then he needs to teach her literally everything. He's like, “masturbate, try it out.” What were your thoughts? I mean, they're both very attractive actors, and I liked looking at them. Period.
Isha
They're both attractive. But I did sometimes feel uncomfortable because Daphne looks like a 13- or 14-year old, and he looks much older. But I think the actress is like 25.
Tanisha
I thought she looked age appropriate as did he. I know the books probably set this up, but when you're adapting something, especially way after the books were published, you do have that freedom to make it more time-appropriate. They didn't need to infantilize her so much and at the same time make her this, "I'm capable of making my own decisions, back off" person. [Or someone who is like:] "I believe I have nothing, and the only thing that I have is my face and my body," and all that. But at the same time, I feel like she was very, very fickle. Every single time that she brought up “you have so much because you're a man, and I have nothing because I'm a woman,” it just made me cringe so badly. Especially because they set it up to be a world where racism did exist at some point. I'm pretty sure she said this to Simon as well, and for her to say that to him “you have no idea what oppression means because I’m a woman, OK?” It was just weird. She was just extremely childlike and not at the same time. You know those 12-year-olds who really want to go to the mall by themselves? Like that.
Beck
That's gonna be an outdated reference. Like, right now, already.
Tanisha
Okay. Well, I am old then, I guess.
Isha
Part of it is she is young, right? She's supposed to be like 15, I think. So she is still a teenager. But society dictates that it's time for her to go through her whole marriage season. So that kind of caused her to have to grow up in some ways, but she's still a 15-year-old. So I think maybe that's what the discrepancy is.
[Editor's note: in the novel by Julia Quinn, Daphne is 21 years old. The show does not explicitly mention her age.]
Elizabeth
The romantic development overall for me was very subtle, or maybe hard to pick up on. Obviously, like you mentioned, it's 1813, so the way that romance is developed, or how they court is a lot different. So it's a lot of them taking walks together, just talking or dancing. I just remember them dancing and then talking and they enjoy each other's company, obviously. And then I remember this one episode where they're at the Queen, and he's like, “I burn for her” or something, or they tell each other that or something. Just that stark contrast between their interactions, and then that whole scene was jarring for me because beyond them just looking at each other across the ballroom or like taking walks, I was like, “I didn't see this coming as strongly as it did.”
Beck
Off that, one of the issues I saw with their relationship, which is kind of fun in a TV sort of way, all their fights early on, seem to, and later on, pretty much just end with them having sex.
Isha
I feel like that's just kind of representative of the whole relationship. Communication was obviously a huge issue for them. He did not tell her about his whole vow to not have kids thing. I feel like a lot of instances Daphne did not feel comfortable enough to say what she wanted to say because maybe her lack of experience, maybe she's younger, things like that. And then he obviously has his own life, and he's used to being a lone wolf. So maybe that kind of fueled his lack of communication skills. But I think that the sex was a byproduct of that.
Elizabeth
Honestly, it's just another one of those clichés that you see in a lot of romantic shows or movies. The communication is not always there, but the physical aspect is always there.
Beck
If there's going to be seven more seasons of this show about the children, from this first season, what characters, what things are we interested in seeing or what would bring us back to the show?
Elizabeth
Earlier I mentioned I wanted to see Eloise and kind of her development as she grows older and kind of see if her mindset changes or how she stands in society. But also I think I'd be curious to see Colin and Penelope’s relationship, if there is eventually something there, especially now that we know – not to put any spoilers – of Penelope’s other activities.
Tanisha
The only thing that would bring me back to the show is if Penelope and Eloise got together. That’s the only thing that will bring me back because I think that Eloise is obviously not just like ‒ she's obviously gay. We can tell, right? You know that whole shazam with “I love Colin, and I want him and Marina to break up because he's too young and all that.” I don't think she liked Colin. She liked Marina. That's really obvious. And the only reason she thinks she likes Collin is because she was friends with Marina first. She was so invested in her relationship with this faraway soldier who didn't really exist. But then when a real guy comes to take Marina away then she was like, ahh.
Isha
I think I'd be interested in Anthony or Benedict because I kind of liked Anthony as a character. I feel like that might be a hot take. And Benedict, I definitely think he's gay, and I definitely thought when he went to the painter's house that they were going to make some moves. So I would be interested to see how that would play out in this 1813 show.
Elizabeth
I agree with the Benedict take. Going back to Elouise, I think the best character comparison I have for that is Jo from Little Women. She is very similar in a lot of aspects and a lot of their mindset.
Spoiler alert for the rest of the transcript.
Beck
I think it's interesting because the show kind of only – as far as I could remember – only had the one direct moment of homosexual relationship, which was in the brothel very much behind closed doors. But I would be interested if they actually go that direction. I have no idea where the books go, so I assume it goes where the books do. So far it has seemed very straight. Oh, I just got to get this off my chest too, though. Penelope – we'll spoil it right now. Penelope‒
Elizabeth
I tried so hard.
Beck
Yeah. So this big build up to Lady Whistledown, Lady Whistledown all season – all about her, very Gossip Girl. And then right at the end, final episode we see in the carriage, Penelope. It's her – probably ... probably … assumably.
Tanisha
I don’t know. I think it's really obvious.
Elizabeth
I don't know for me, it was very unexpected. And I almost didn't like how they ended it on that. Because I thought it came out of nowhere. But I'd be curious to see what were the signs you guys saw?
Isha
For me, it was as soon as she outed Marina as being pregnant when she was about to marry Collin. Then I was like, "OK, it's definitely Penelope." I was mostly surprised by the fact that they revealed it was her because I was kind of putting this in the same frame as Gossip Girl where I was like, "OK, they're gonna reveal it at the very, very end." So when they revealed her I was like, "already?," I guess I was kind of anticipating this being a long running mystery throughout the series. And I wonder if they're going to replace that mystery or dish the whole "Who is Lady Whistledown?" thing. But yeah, I kind of saw it coming. What about you Tanisha?
Tanisha
There's this scene where her and Eloise are talking and Eloise is talking about how she really wants to just find out who it is. And like you can tell by the way Penelope is behaving, that's something that she's not interested in, because she pretends that she's more interested in her problems. But she's also trying to steer the conversation away from that because she doesn't want her to find out. And then, I don’t know which one of them says "why it would it be one of the servants, it has to be someone who has access to all these private spaces, and is also someone that has the time and that people are just kind of overlooking." And so I was like, yeah, it's obviously you then! Just say it.
Beck
I'm glad they didn't go the Gossip Girl route: let's just keep on building up to this moment. Because they changed who Gossip Girl was a lot of times before landing the result, and it kind of whimpered out a bit. So it could be interesting to explore what it means for her.
Tanisha
The actress who plays Penelope, she's also in Derry Girls. So the weird thing is that in Derry Girls, she's a lesbian. And I love that show. And she plays a great character in that. I don't care enough about the show to actually root for any of the characters, so I'm just rooting for the actors. So I love her. So I'm always OK with everything that she did. I was like, "go cause some damage and pop out, have some fun."
Elizabeth
One interesting thing I did like about the show that made it kind of unique was the modern music with the classical orchestra, the accompaniments to the show. I thought that was really unique. I watched the show while I was doing busy work or something, so I would just be half-listening, half-watching and then I would hear something that I recognize, like, "Oh, that's really cool."
Tanisha
I thought that was funny. It made me laugh a lot. Every single time it was on I was like, "this is so insane." What? Who pitched that? Who sat in a room with 15 other really smart writers of the show, and said "my great idea is that we put the music we use now" ‒
Beck
Let's use "Bad Guy" by Billie Eilish. Let's have that played on a string quartet. Let's do it.
Isha
There were some flaws plot-wise, character development-wise, but I feel like it was entertaining. Oh yeah, I watched it in one night. So it was, you know, a good use of my time. I stayed up until 8 a.m.
Elizabeth
I'm a huge fan of Downton Abbey. So when I heard something very similar yet kind of different came out, I was excited to watch it. And obviously, we've discussed it's not the same, not the same level. And there are flaws to it. But I think compared to what's been put out [that's] similar, I think I enjoyed this a little more. It wasn't a bad use of my time. I didn't binge it all in one night. I maybe took a week. But it was a good use of a couple hours once a day. One thing I thought this show was kind of missing was wit or humor that I kind of found and enjoyed from Downton Abbey. I kind of wish they had that.
Beck
I think that's the way this show could improve. There were some funny moments. Like when the chick passed out from her corset in front of the Queen, the little stuff like that – if they leaned into kind of the goofiness of it all.
Tanisha
In every period show, you would have someone passing out because they're wearing a corset – it’s not even original humor. Daphne laughed at everything. I hated her so much. I was like, stop laughing. What is so funny? What is so funny, explain it to me. I don’t get it. It just wasn't my show, maybe. This is something that I forgot to say: I was really thrown off by them first doing colorblind casting for the show, and then introducing things like this really half-baked racial hierarchy – they did not need to include that. I was just trying to have a good time. And it was just unnecessary. That's also part of the whole white feminism of it all. As if one marriage, even if it's a royal marriage – as if that could end racism. I mean, Harry and Meghan got married, and the U.K. is still a shithole. And so is Canada. Wherever they go it all just sucks. So I don't know. I would rather they not have mentioned that at all. They didn't need to, it didn't add anything to the show.
Isha
Yeah, I appreciate the attempt at diversity, but it just felt so clumsily added in that it just gave me more questions and confusion, more than anything else.
Beck
Well, it's been fun talking about this. We had some differing opinions, but I think ultimately landed on it's a fun show in some ways, but seasons two through eight could be better.
Elizabeth
Hopefully, hopefully.
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