Join host Dallas and special guests Simone Garber and Jenny Aguilar as they discuss and explore what it’s like studying abroad as FGLI students. From overcoming financial and cultural barriers to embracing new perspectives and personal growth, they share stories about making the most of their global education.

Dallas Thurman: Hi, my name is Dallas, and welcome back to DiscountEDU, a podcast where we talk about our experiences as FGLI, or first-generation low-income students, at Northwestern. It’ll be just me as today’s host, but I have two special guests for this episode. Please introduce yourselves.

Simone Garber: Hi, my name is Simone Garber. I am a junior studying journalism and history.

Jenny Aguilar: Hi, I’m Jenny Aguilar, and I’m a junior also studying journalism.

Dallas: And today we will be talking about studying abroad as FGLI and all the aspects that come along with it.

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Dallas: Okay, starting off, where did you travel, and how did you choose that destination or location?

Jenny: So I went to Bologna, Italy. So it’s a city right above Florence but below Venice. A lot of people don’t really know where it is in Italy, and I kind of chose it. I hadn’t really thought about it too much until I started taking Italian classes in freshman year. I first was like, “Oh, I guess I need a language, I’ll do Italian, it’s like Spanish, it’ll be easy.” I really liked it. So then after the first year, I was like, “Maybe I should just keep doing this because I like it a lot.” And then a professor was saying, “You should go study in Italy. It’d be really fun, but don’t go to Florence because everyone goes to Florence.” It’s just more Americanized, versus Bologna is more of an authentic experience. All classes are in Italian. I was like, “Let’s do this challenge.” And then I showed up and was there for three months.

Dallas: Cool. You, Simone?

Simone: So I studied abroad in Doha, Qatar. Doha is the capital city of Qatar, and Qatar is a country in the Middle East and in a region specifically known as the Gulf, and the Gulf includes several countries from Qatar to Saudi Arabia to Oman to Kuwait to Bahrain. It’s a region that I became a little more familiar with after having traveled there, and I had not been to that region of the world before. It was a bit of an unorthodox choice for me. I actually had not been out of the continent in a while. I think I was taken to Belgium as a baby, but, of course, I don’t remember that. So thank you, Mom and Dad. But I always thought maybe I’d go to Europe, maybe I’d do Amsterdam, I would go ride bikes around, and although I still would love to do that one day, when I found out about this opportunity, I knew it was something that I would want to do under the guise of school administration and a comfortable environment like that.

So I ended up going to a study abroad fair my freshman year, as we all do, and it was in the back of my mind, and I saw that they had a journalism-specific program. It was journalism and communications, so I decided I wanted to check it out. I went to a virtual info session my sophomore year, and then I brought it up to my mom, and then we had quite a few conversations with friends and family, just about, you know, what that was going to look like for me. I’m from Chicago, so I had never gone away for a long period of time – let alone 7,000 miles away. So it was certainly something that I had to adapt to, but I’m very glad I ended up choosing that region of the world, and something that was a little less conventional than if I hadn’t pushed myself out of my comfort zone.

Dallas: Did y’all have any concerns or anxieties with traveling abroad?

Jenny: Absolutely, I was scared. I remember one of the professors who does an interview for my program – it’s very low key though – she would ask you, “Are you scared to go?” And another student told me she said yes because it’s a scary thing to leave home. And similar to Simone, I’m from the Chicago area, so I’ve never really been away for that long of a time and for that far of a distance. So it was definitely like, the more I thought about it, the more I was like, “Oh, I don’t know if I want to go.” But then it got to the point where I was like, “Just don’t think about it.It’ll be fine at the end of the day.” But yeah, it was definitely a scary but exciting decision.

Simone: Yeah, for me, just to echo Jenny’s point, it is really scary being away from home, whether that be college or anywhere else. And then for me, I just thought that because I’ve always been so close to home, that was going to be even more of a transition than people who had moved from other states. But I ended up doing a program my sophomore year in the winter before I went to Qatar, and that was a program in Washington, DC, so it was a good stepping stone for me. I was a little bit across the country but still only a time zone away, and I actually met a girl from Qatar in DC, and so I had a friend that I could rely on, and I told her I was considering this program. She encouraged me to do it, and she was able to connect me with her social network when I got there. So that was definitely something that eased my anxieties. I had kind of one way into these people, and that just opened a whole vast array of opportunities.

But more so than the social networking, I think the social culture was something that I was a little anxious going into. We talk a lot about our Western conceptions of other areas of the world: us being American, us being products of the West, which we have our own unique experiences coming from here. But we certainly don’t learn – at least I did not learn in school – a whole lot about the Middle East, and what I learned was mired with some anxiety. So I did my best to try to overcome that. I was scared. I said, “What am I going to wear? You know, it’s going to be very hot, I’m going to want to wear summer clothes. Is that going to be socially acceptable? How am I going to dress? How am I going to walk around as a woman? How am I going to present as a white woman in a foreign country?” So these were questions that I was grappling with before coming, but it was something that, when I met some of the girls who were my age at my university that I was at, it just became so easy for me to talk to them. And while all my questions weren’t solved immediately, I definitely became a lot more comfortable just knowing I could rely on people my own age who knew what was up.

Dallas: What did you kind of learn about yourself or your background through, you know, being immersed in this different culture in a different country? Did you learn anything new? Learn something about yourself while you were there?

Jenny: That’s a good question. I know I did learn a lot, especially being there, not just being in a new country but like being in a place where I did not have family nearby. I think, and this is more like FGLI related, I kind of just learned about me being the first. I’m first generation, and so I was the first one in my family to study abroad anywhere really, and I think even extended family. So it was very strange for me being there and doing all these experiences: like being able to go see the Colosseum, going to Florence and going to all these iconic places. And every day, in the back of my mind was, “Oh, I wish my mom was here. I wish my brother was here to be able to share this experience with them.”

I think for me, that’s even a common theme in college. Like I’ve gotten so many different experiences and opportunities, and I’m grateful for them, but there’s also a big part of me that’s like, I just want to share this with the people who helped me to get here. So I think it’s reminded me of what I’m able to do, but also not forgetting the people who helped me get to where I am. 

Simone: Yeah, I think I learned a lot about myself as an American, especially in the political moment we were in and then continue to be. I found out about the election when I was over there. I was there from August to December, and come November, you know, I was really reeling. I felt very isolated, so far away. And I had a great academic and social support system in so many aspects of my life, but that particular identity was something that I was escaping, essentially, by going over there. And so, I was one of few Americans in any given room, if not the only one, when I was over there. Usually I was in a lot of classes where I was challenging my preconceptions, what I had learned in my own environments in America. And I was learning a lot about other cultures, other people, and then just by proxy, myself in that sense.

I also learned how to navigate relationships, not only with a whole host of new people. I’d never really been the new person in a room before, and I was there, but I learned how to navigate relationships back home too. I kind of learned who my true friends were, who wanted to keep in contact with me, and who I was able to have a relationship with from so many miles away. And then I was able to, you know, learn to be spontaneous as well. I took some trips on weekends. I was able to go to Oman. I went to Saudi Arabia over my fall break. I also went to Portugal to visit a friend as well, so I really gained a lot in terms of my independence, and my introspection too, and just reflecting on my own identity. I didn’t consider myself too unique. I still don’t really, but I do realize that we are our lived experiences, and so whatever I brought to the table was still valued, even though I wasn’t like everyone else in that room.

Jenny: It’s interesting you bring up the American identity, because I think for me, my family – my parents – immigrated from Guatemala. So growing up here, I’ve always kind of had that two identity of like, “Oh, this is like the American view, and this is like a more Hispanic viewpoint.” So I think – but you’re right though, with the election that day that we found out the results – I had to go volunteer at a middle school, and I was like, “Oh no, what are they gonna say?” And then one of the teachers there, she was like, “Oh, how do you feel about that?” I was like – in my okay Italian – I was like, “You know, it’s really sad.” And she’s like, “We feel sad too.” So it’s kind of like, obviously there’s going to be diversity in different political viewpoints anywhere, but it was nice kind of knowing that, okay, there are some Italians that also share my morals and my values. So it was a strange feeling being like, “Wow, I’m so far away, but when I come back home, this is gonna really affect a lot more.”

Simone: Yeah, I think, and Jenny and Dallas and I, we all went to London too, a few months after. So I think both of us being away and then getting those somewhat unexpected questions prepared us to, “Okay, we’re going abroad again,” and we’re going to a different place, but it’s still not the US. And so we now kind of know we’re in this climate, and we are prepared to answer or deflect, or however we see that-

Jenny: Yeah, just laugh it off. 

Simone: -to these queries.

Dallas: On that note, I know you kind of both spoke briefly about this just now, but do you think there were any assumptions or stereotypes for yourself or others that were challenged during your time in study abroad? Or was your kind of thinking about the place you went to challenged? Or was your identity challenged by other people around you?

Simone: Yeah, I think in so many ways. And, you know, the classes I was in, I was taking a few classes on decolonialism, Arab politics in the Middle East, alternative media in the Middle East. And the curriculum was fascinating, but I think what was even more so was just the people that were participating in those discussions. This was the first time that I had met Palestinian people. Two of my professors were actually Palestinian. One of them would come into class and he’d say, “Oh, you know, my cousin is no longer alive,” or “My sister has just called me, and our olive tree and our home has been destroyed.” And I had not had that experience before.

Obviously, I had been very aware of these kinds of conflicts and very invested from the States. But not having met those people and being surrounded in my own echo chamber here at Northwestern and Evanston, I certainly would not have been able to meet those people and gain those perspectives. So it made me aware of my own country’s complicitness in a lot of ways. And then, you know, it’s hard – and we talked a lot just among my peers – the fact that where I was at, it’s Northwestern University in Qatar. So it is a non-Western institution, yet in a lot of ways, it is a non-Western institution teaching somewhat Western philosophies. Or you could argue the other way around too, just depending on where you’re at. But we are funded by American tax dollars, so we wouldn’t really have that institution if we didn’t have Northwestern in the US.

So there’s this paradox there of, “Okay, you know, we have a diverse group of international students, many of whom are not American. So we don’t have to teach Western schools of thought.” But yet, the very reason we’re here is because of Western financial support and those ideologies kind of sneaking their way in in some way. So academically and socially, those two philosophies really intersected. And every day, I was learning something new about, again, not only myself but other people, other cultures, and other backgrounds too. And that was so invaluable, beyond even just the curriculum itself in class.

Jenny: I think my experience was more, I don’t want to say subtle, but it wasn’t, because obviously Italy’s in Europe, so there’s a little bit more like the Western themes. I don’t know the right word for it. Like, there’s more similarities between Europe and the US. I think there was more so just like the types of classes. Like you’re so used to being here at Northwestern: very small classes, more discussion-based, versus there the classes I took at the local university were two hours long. The professor lectures the entire period, sometimes without a PowerPoint, and you just hear all the other students just typing for two hours straight. And I was like, “What am I supposed to remember?” And there’s no homework, but there’s one final exam at the end of the semester.

And it was just like, those subtle changes kind of showed me how to adapt to the things that aren’t fit with how I’m used to them. But it also showed me what works best for me versus what I don’t want. There was a friend I had there – they pretty much said that they wanted to bring back with them the traditions and cultures that fit with them and that they felt were useful, but also leave the stuff that maybe did not help them, even down to like drinking a little cappuccino in the morning or taking a longer lunch break. People are like, “Oh, Italians love long lunch breaks” and stuff like that. But it’s actually experiencing a culture that I think there’s some value to, and there’s always something you can bring back with you.

Also, on a lighter note, and this is maybe just a me problem, but people don’t walk on the right side of the road of the sidewalk there. So you’d be walking one way, and then they’re coming straight at you, and they’re not going to change the way. So then you might have that awkward, like, “Oh no, which way are you going to go?” And then maybe they’re just stopping in the middle of the sidewalk, and you’re right behind them, and you run into them. It is very, like those small details. I laugh about it now, but in the moment, and other people in my class who were Americans, they were also like, “Oh yeah, I noticed that too.” So it’s stuff that you don’t really think about until you’re there and you’re like, “Oh, maybe this is just different, and I’m not used to it.”

Simone: Yeah, and as curious as you are about, you know – you’re an outsider in another place, and you’re going to be respectful obviously – people are curious about you too, and it doesn’t come from a place of malice. Sometimes I’m scared. Like I’ve had experiences, even over there, I had a phlebotomist and it was five days after the election, she’s like, “Do you like Trump?” I said, “No.” She said, “I do.” And I was like, “Oh, okay.” I try to avoid as many of those conversations as possible. But many people who are asking and talking with you, they just want to know and learn more because you are so different to them too. So as different as this culture is for you, everybody also has something to learn. So you bring a lot of value, even as an American. Even as!

Dallas: Just talking more about your day-to-day experiences, how do you think your FGLI identity impacted your experience while abroad? Or if it didn’t, can you just kind of tell me what the day-to-day looked like for you?

Jenny: I think for me, and that just makes me think about money and like, “Oh, what am I gonna spend on food? And how can I save money?” Obviously, people, especially in Europe, a lot of people tend to go to other countries over the weekend, and that’s more money, so just travel expenses. And I think for me, what helped was going in knowing: one, that I had the Northwestern financial aid help with stuff like food and rent, and that allowed me to then feel like, “Okay, maybe I can spend money on like this museum or on this train to this other part of the country.”

By the end of it for me, it got to the point where I was like, “Okay, I’ve saved money,” and it’s like, “Let me just enjoy this last month, or these last couple of weeks, and get more takeout. Orgo more places,” because it’s not like I’m going to come back anytime soon. But there were times where I was tempted – there was a group that went to Dublin, and they were like, “Jenny, do you want to go?” And this is like early in September, and I was like, “Well, I don’t know. It’s really tempting.” But I didn’t save out money for that. I would have rather spent that money on other things, which I did.

I think it’s all about just finding that balance between what you want but also not going overboard and staying true to yourself. And if that means staying out of a trip or maybe cooking instead of going out to eat one night, then you should do that. You should feel comfortable, even if you’re doing it by yourself.

Simone: Yeah, like Jenny, I was the first person in my family to study abroad. So this was like, let alone in Qatar, but just study abroad in general. So this was new territory for me and my mom both to navigate. We were both somewhat in the dark, but we had a great, you know, administration in Qatar helping, and they organized our visas, which was great. We were given a $5,000 stipend to cover meals, from what I remember, and that did go a long way. We didn’t have dining plans. I will say that was kind of an imperfect scenario, because there was no Allison or Sarge or something to swipe into. We were largely on our own to figure out food.

But my friends and I loved this free meal delivery service. It was amazing. It’s called “Talabat.” I will promote that for those who are listening, and they delivered free to everyone in Education City, which was very worth staying. And so you could choose from a variety of chains or other restaurants around Doha and the surrounding areas. So that was great. They would come at any hour, you know, 2 a.m. if you wanted a pizza. It was a pretty reliable service. So I felt very grateful to have that at my disposal. I do not rely on DoorDash or Uber Eats or anything over here, because those fees really add up, but I felt very lucky to have them. I will say I also felt really lucky, and I was grateful that the economy over there, it is very strong and things are generally less expensive than they are here. I don’t know if you found that in Italy?

With the exception of maybe coffee, which is imported, a lot of my groceries, if I bought any, and a lot of my meals were, you know, I could get a full meal for between five and ten U.S. dollars, if not less than that in some cases. So I learned that I could splurge a little bit if I wanted to, just because I had the stipend available, I was paying the equivalent of tuition here. But the dorms, the room and board, I believe, or the room was cheaper, and they had full accommodations. I had the most basic accommodation. I had my own room and my own bathroom, which was amazing. Don’t think I’ll ever live in luxury like that ever again.

So yeah, to echo what Jenny said, I did want to partake in as many trips as I could. I felt a little FOMO for the European people who were able to just go off every weekend. I didn’t necessarily do that, but I chose to travel intentionally with what funds I had. So I knew I wanted to go to Muscat, which is the capital of Oman, and then I actually was able to take a free trip to Saudi Arabia, which was through my school. They took us on a media tour visit. So just by emailing the Student Affairs Department, I was able to join them. So I was lucky to do that, and then I wanted to take a bigger trip at the end, so I was able to go to Portugal. But yeah, by not going everywhere every weekend, I think I was able to save and enjoy the life that I had carved out in Doha itself too.

Jenny: You’re so right about the food. The euro, I think, is a little bit more than the U.S. dollar. But the food, you could get a nice sandwich for like five euros or something. I really miss the price of coffee. I could get a cappuccino for like a euro, a euro fifty. And then coming back here, it’s almost five dollars at some places. And just like, “Oh, I had the good life, and now I miss it every day.” And like you were saying, I really liked the intentionality of traveling.

I knew someone going into the program, and she’s Greek, and she’s like, “I really want to go to Greece.” And I was like, “That’d be so fun. I’ve never been.” So I knew going in that I was going to have to set my money and I was going to go to Greece. And then at the same time, I knew my brother was going to come pick me up, and he’s like, “I want to go to Paris and Rome.” So I had three trips pretty much where it’s like, this is what I’m going to spend most of my money on. And yeah, I’m hearing people who went to like, oh, geez, I don’t know, not Venice. Just other places nearby, other countries. And I’m like, “Oh, that’s so fun.” They’re going somewhere every weekend, like Switzerland, I know was one of them. The UK was another, Dublin like I mentioned.

But at the same time, I’m like, “I don’t want to do also a rushed trip that’s just to say I went there.” I want it to be, if I’m going somewhere and I’m spending my money on it, I want it to be as enjoyable as it can be in a weekend. And I feel like Greece, for me, was just that. It was the best weekend trip.

Simone: Did you go to Athens?

Jenny: I did. So we were only in Athens because we went in November, so it wasn’t beach time at all, and it would’ve taken time to go to the other islands. But we were in Athens. It was perfect for me. Went to the Acropolis, the Acropolis Museum. I loved it. I would go back.

Simone: And the rest of Europe will be there too. You don’t have to go to all these places at 20 or 21. You can spread them out. You can have something to look forward to.

Dallas: Right, right. Now looking forward, you’re both juniors, going on to do JR or just graduation in general. Kind of looking at how study abroad has impacted your experiences, your college experience, maybe your outlook on life. In what ways has studying abroad influenced your future goals or perspectives on education? And also maybe what you want to go into post-grad, like your career, or just anything it has influenced in your life.

Jenny: I think for me, it’s definitely piqued my interest in a more global view of things. I don’t think I could permanently move to Italy. I’ve learned that I value family and being close to family. But I do think it showed me that maybe I could do it for like a year, or I would like to have a job that pays for me to travel to other countries. That global mindset is something I’ve gained and really value more now. I’d definitely be more open to positions that are international. But yeah, I know I couldn’t live that way for the rest of my life. I would need to move at some point back home.

Simone: Yeah. People ask me, “Would you move there if you could?” I would visit again. I would visit for a long period of time. There are countries in that region and around the world that I want to visit that I haven’t been. I have a friend who would love to move to the place he studied abroad permanently. If you told him right now he could go, he would. And for me—

Dallas: Where?

Simone: Portugal, which is beautiful.

Jenny: Is it Jeremy?

Simone Garber: Yeah, can we dox him on here? But no, I totally get it. Cost of living, happiness, quality of life, healthcare, lack of gun violence. I could go on. But it’s weird. Every place I’ve been, I’ve really enjoyed and appreciated it for its culture. But I’ve realized I belong here. This is my home in a lot of ways. I do understand its issues. But the field I want to go into – I want to go into local news reporting – I need to understand the issues that impact community members. How am I going to do that without knowing those issues firsthand and experiencing them in the same environment that they’re experiencing them?

Where there’s conflict, which there is a lot here in the U.S., I think there’s opportunity for good reporting. It’s made me want to stay, but like Jenny said, it’s also given me a more global, well-rounded, holistic view of the issues that affect us, and how our issues extend to people all over the world. In a future job – maybe 10 or 20 years from now – when I have more stability, I’d love to use that kind of travel to inform my reporting and experiences. Maybe be based as a correspondent somewhere. Just be able to report on local communities.

That London class was great. It pushed us out of our comfort zone. It’s an English-speaking country, so we didn’t have a language barrier. But we had to go up to people and introduce ourselves and expect the stereotype and the confrontation. I think it largely was positive. I’d love to do more of that, both in a journalistic and personal sense.

Jenny: I like how you bring up London. I feel like between London and Italy, if I had to pick a place to live, it would be London. Besides the language, it was such a diverse city. Not saying Italy isn’t diverse. It definitely is, but when you compare it to London or Chicago, there was less emphasis on other cultures other than Italian culture. After the first two weeks, I was like, “Okay, I’ve had pizza and pasta many times. I’m ready to spice things up a little.” It showed me how much I value accessibility to other cultures, not just my own culture. I definitely value diversity in a lot of aspects. But Italy, like you said, I’d love to go visit multiple times if I could.

Simone: We should all do a trip. Bring the podcast equipment over there.

Dallas: Yeah. For those wondering, Jenny, Simone and I were in a class together called JOURneys. If you’re a journalism major listening, that’s an opportunity for you. The trip we went on was to London. We did arts and culture reporting. We got to spend about a week there over spring break.

Simone: People compare Chicago to London a lot. I thought it resembled New York more, but I get the Chicago comparison. I asked why, and they said, “It’s the diversity.” I’m doing an essay on Chicago, looking at public schooling and the guise of diversity that’s reinforced through de facto segregation. I think London is what Chicago could be, or could have been. I definitely noticed the genuine integration of so many different kinds of people. I noticed that through the infrastructure, through transportation. It’s so developed, almost overwhelmingly. The Tube was one of the craziest systems I’ve ever been on. But it works really well, serves so many people, and everybody uses it.

Jenny: Exactly.

Simone: You don’t see the class divide firsthand, because you have everybody using the same train. You’re in the same car.

Jenny: Yeah.

Simone: That was really interesting.

Jenny: Here, it’s the Metra versus the L.

Simone: Yeah, right, right.

Jenny: It’s diverse but segregated. London felt more like layers and connecting points between different cultures.

Dallas: Yeah.

Simone: It’s just everyone’s original colonial power. It’s a common enemy. They’ve all come back.

Dallas: And to wrap things up, what advice would you both give to other FGLI students who are considering studying abroad, or just anyone who’s considering study abroad in the future?

Jenny: Do it. Don’t think about it too much. I think, obviously, meeting with the financial aid people, the GLO office, they can help give you a breakdown of what aid they can give you. They have the program Bridge Builders. I used that to buy my plane ticket and all that. There’s definitely support, but there will be times where you feel scared, especially the visa process. I was like, “Oh, what if they don’t let me in the country?” But there are people to help you. You’re not alone. And if you’re thinking about it, just do it. You’ll regret it if you don’t.

Simone: Yeah, yeah, again, retweet times two. I mean, if I had listened to half the people who told me not to go, I wouldn’t have, and I wouldn’t have gotten the experience I did. At the same time, be safe, be cautious. You’re a smart person. Get a variety of perspectives. Before I went, I actually talked to two students who had done the program in years past, and they both recommended it wholeheartedly. It’s not like their experience was perfect, but they said it gave them a lot, and I was able to email with another one.

I was fortunate too. Shout out to John Xu, who did Bridge with me in 2022. He actually went with me. We were two of three students from the Evanston campus. That was really great, having a familiar face, someone to rely on. He and I experienced that culture in very different ways, but in a lot of ways we came with the same Evanston background, with our somewhat Western educations. And we were able to rely on each other for new learning, curiosity, and opportunities.

So rely on your existing social networks. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. I exchanged quite a few emails with people ahead of time just about visas and other questions and all sorts of logistical processes which needed to be figured out. So don’t be scared to send that first email and know that people are really in your corner.

I never felt so supported as I did through my campus. That was a result of the kind of connectivity they hope to foster at the Evanston and Qatar campuses. Actually, I have a river cruise coming up with the current exchange students who are here in Evanston, the people who went to Qatar, and the future ones. So it’s really paying dividends. A lot of my friends are here right now. We do a lot of stuff together. We explore, go out. They’re really wanting to get a taste of what America has to offer, and I’m getting to see my hometown through different eyes, which is really nice. It can kind of take you places you never knew it would. So do it, do it, do it.

Dallas: This concludes the eighth episode of DiscountEDU. I’m Dallas.

Simone: I’m Simone.

Jenny: I’m Jenny.

Dallas: Thanks for listening.

Jenny: Thank you.

Simone: Thanks.

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